Pharrell Interview With Allhiphop.com

You can make the argument that Hip-Hop and Pop culture have been fighting a never-ending battle since Big Bank Hank allegedly lifted a Grandmaster Caz rhyme for his verse on Sugarhill Gang’s “Rapper’s Delight.” Decades later the backpackers and the suits are still begrudgingly giving each other props for their respective roles in making Hip-Hop the dominant cultural movement that it is today. At the intersection of the underground and the Billboard charts, stands Pharrell Williams.

As entrances go, you’d be hard pressed to pick a more inconspicuous one. In 1998, after being understudies to Teddy Riley, the Virginia Beach native and his production partner Chad Hugo provided the backdrop for Noreaga’s Persian-themed project anthem “Superthug.” You know the rest of the story; eight years later Skateboard P has flipped his success behind the production boards into a record label, endorsements from Louis Vuitton leather goods and Hewlett Packard computers as well as his own brand of Ice Cream shoes and clothing.

Yet, in his mind, Williams is still a backpacker at heart. Never mind the fact that his backpack just so happens to be sitting in the passenger seat of a Ferrari Enzo-one of only 399 made worldwide. Is it possible that Pharrell is just as comfortable providing beats for gyrating pop starlets like Britney Spears, or his Virginia Beach cohorts The Clipse, who openly admit to being able to, “move ‘caine like a cripple.” Can you really call yourself a backpacker after hopping off of a private jet with Donatella Versace? As Pharrell himself would say, “Yessir.”

AllHipHop.com: You make a lot of references to artist, Andy Warhol, as someone who also mass produces mass culture, what other similarities do you see between you two?

Pharrell: I like Warhol because the commercial world understood him, but he traveled amongst the forward-thinking few. He just had an awesome perspective on his art. While I have a lot of stuff that I do that is physical or material, I like to reinterpret his position and his vantage point on music. When he did the color prints, he’d do Marilyn Monroe in four different colors juxtaposed-he would do one in blue, one in red, one in yellow and one in another color. What I liked about it is that if he did music, the n***a would probably loop something, I’m not a big sampler, but he would’ve probably sampled something and made it four minutes, and each minute he’d probably f**k with the frequency or f**k with the hues. Like that first minute would be clear, the second would be no bass, the third would’ve been regular but no treble, the fourth would’ve been like twisted and sound like it’s in a room or something. To me, that was dope, because it just showed you so many different left-handed perspectives of images that you’d seen before.

AllHipHop.com: True.

Pharrell: When I said, “I Warholed the world,” I just meant that I was one of the ones that brought color back, if that’s what you’re referring to. That’s such a vague statement and I’m not into taking a whole bunch of credit during an interview, so there’s not much I would say. I may say it in a verse, but I’m not big on taking credit in person.

AllHipHop.com: Don’t you think avoiding taking credit for certain trends and creating a formula of not having a formula is somewhat contradictory?

Pharrell: That’s exactly what it is, it’s oxymoronic, but it makes sense.

AllHipHop.com: You might not want to take credit for how fans respond to a record, but how do you control what you bring to the technical part of making music?

Pharrell: You can pretty much control anything you want when you’re creative, because its you-it’s your hands and it’s your clay.

AllHipHop.com: Is that what happened in Fade To Black, when you pitched “Allure” to Jay-Z by comparing it to the final scene of Carlito's Way? Although they're different mediums, is pitching a song idea similar to a screenwriter pitching a movie idea?

Pharrell: Yeah, that’s kind of how I see my music. I aspire to be to music what [Steven] Spielberg is to film.

AllHipHop.com: Even Spielberg has flopped before; have you ever looked back a project that didn’t meet your expectations and think, “How did I not see that one coming?”

Pharrell: Nah, because I look through creative lenses, and because that’s what it is, its not always gonna fly. I can’t get mad when I get nine out of ten. Sometimes having that one that didn’t really go like it was supposed to, for your fans that really love you, that s**t is special to them in a weird way.

AllHipHop.com: Is that what happened with N.E.R.D.? Those albums weren’t huge commercial successes, but they have kind of hidden dialogue which has created a cult following.

Pharrell: I just think that you should give people more for their money, you know? That’s what I would want, I would want for there to be some sort of hidden puzzle. The only thing you’ve got to worry about is when nutcases run across it, somebody thinking you’re trying to say “Helter-Skelter” or some kind of crazy s**t.

AllHipHop.com: They want to play the record backwards and get some kind of hidden message or something?

Pharrell: Man, believe me if I could do it! I’ve been studying it for a few years now, and it’s quite technical, because when you can get something to sound good backwards, it usually doesn’t sound good forward.

AllHipHop.com: So you’re taking it much deeper than just chord progressions and things of that nature?

Pharrell: Yeah, chord progressions sound incredible backwards-actually. I’m on the brink of my new style, by the way. I can’t wait to launch it, it’s not really Pop it’s just like some Hip-Hop s**t.

AllHipHop.com: Can we get any other hints?

Pharrell: Hmmm, can’t tell you. It’s about to be that s**t.

AllHipHop.com: Well, we’ve seen your current style evolve from “Rump Shaker” to “Super Thug” to “Can I Have It Like That,” do you have a “Golden Era” of your own?

Pharrell: For different reasons, you know? Like the Native Tongue era was incredible to me. The ’93 to ’97 Biggie, Jay-Z and Nas era was crazy too. I love the Rakim and [Big Daddy] Kane era. I like a lot of it and it’s so great to see how Hip-Hop is going in so many directions and we’re just trying to take it in so many other directions.

AllHipHop.com: Do you think any of the songs in your catalogue engage you emotionally the way those records did?

Pharrell: I don’t know, that’s taking credit again. I just like…

AllHipHop.com: What about just in general, it could be somebody else’s work too?

Pharrell: It doesn’t happen too often, to be honest. Right now the music industry is controlled by a bunch of lawyers, business guys and ex-attorneys who know how to turn a profit. And the way to turn a profit is to keep it simple, like fast food. They want it to be more like fast food and I like giving motherf**kers meals. I like hittin’ ‘em with jewels and I just like hittin’ ‘em with music that feels handmade. I try to make sure that the thread count is high; they don’t really give a f**k they just like to keep it going.

That’s why I love Jimmy [Iovine] so much, because Jimmy let me do this album that’s got so much condensed s**t in it. I’m not a commercial n***a, so he wasn’t supposed to give me the money he’s giving me or this kind of attention and turn up the heat like he did.

AllHipHop.com: So I guess you could say that it’s concentrated?

Pharrell: Yeah, it’s definitely concentrated, you could use a few gallons of water. I could’ve named my album Just Add Water.

AllHipHop.com: With this album, you've definitely gotten to a point in your career where you can now accept or reject projects--and be held accountable for your decisions…

Pharrell: Yeah, I mean when you make a certain amount of money from doing what you love, and you ain’t adding no motherf**kin’ chaser to it, that’s when you’re happy. I’m just happy that he wanted to put the record out. Of course I had my frustrations, and at times, you say to yourself, “Oh it could be this,” but God doesn’t want me to go pop [laughing]. That’s the only thing I could come up with, he don’t want me to be pop. He’s like, “Knock it off P, knock it off. You nice, but knock it off,” and I’m like, “You sure?”

AllHipHop.com: What kind of frustrations did you run into making it?

Pharrell: I just wanted to put my record out, but you can’t put it out if it isn’t mixed because you’re too busy working on everyone else’s project. I have myself to blame because I was just being anxious and artistic and not really caring about the logistics and being practical. But, it’s all good, I can’t complain. I get paid to do what I absolutely love, that s**t is so beautiful that I can’t even tell you.

I try to tell these kids, ‘cause I’ve got this resource center in Virginia Beach, I tell them, “Yo don’t do what you think is going to make you the most money, because there’s a lot of people with a lot of money who are not happy. You’ll realize that you wasted your whole life for a dollar, and you ain’t really happy. What you need to do is find out what you love and do that, and you’ll have a happy ass life. You might not be the richest, but in your heart and in your mind you’ll be rich.” I gotta tell you man, a lot of people tell me, “You don’t know what it’s like to be this or to go through that,” and I tell them, “Yeah I do, because I came from that!” At the same time, I see other people who’ve got way more money than me, but because they don’t do what they love and they don’t love anything more than money they’re always upset and s**t. To be a billionaire with no wife, what kind of life is that? Random b*tches can’t hold you over for the rest of your life, unless that’s what you want. If you want a full, healthy life, and to be good with your own family, to teach and give-because that’s what’s fulfilling to me. I guess to each his own. I just try to tell the kids that it’s more important to do something that you love to do. There’s more to life than just what you see on MTV, it really is-there’s more to life.

AllHipHop.com: You’ve already said that you’re reluctant to take credit but you’ve played a big role in this hybrid of skateboard and Hip-Hop culture. What do you think of the fact that there are kids with trucker hats skateboarding in Harlem now?

Pharrell: Yessir, it makes me proud ‘cause I grew up like that. I had a flat top ‘cause Cameo was the s**t with “Word Up,” I was a young kid. But, Vans was the s**t ‘cause I went to school with white boys. So n****s wore Vans, the checkerboard Vans, the blue and grey Vans, the pink and greys, the pink and blues, all that s**t. For me that was everyday, [at school] it was like, “Why is your hair like that.” Then when I went back to the ‘hood they was like, “Why you wearin’ them shoes, where your Jordans?” My mom couldn’t afford them Jordans, but Vans were 30 dollars, so I was good. Getting caught in the crossfire was a beautiful thing for me.

AllHipHop.com: Speaking of shoes, when the Ice Cream’s first dropped it was about 200 bucks a pair, now you’ve got the new line for 70, are you consciously trying to scale it down?

Pharrell: Nah, the “two for a pairs” are coming back, we had to do new models. The shoe that you’re referring to is a skate shoe. Skaters work hard for their money and you can’t really bang ‘em in the head for that [$200]. The first pairs you were talking about are the boutique pairs.

AllHipHop.com: Business moves like that must allow you to travel a lot, what area of the world do you most love outside of the United States and why?

Pharrell: I love Paris, I absolutely love Paris-but Tokyo, Japan is my home. That’s my home away from home. I love the culture, the mannerisms; they’re just all around good people. They’re some of the most polite individuals you’ve ever met in your life. They’ll always put the stranger first. For example, if you have a cold you’ll walk around with a facemask on-you know the kind that doctors wear? You’ll wear one of those because you don’t want anyone else to get the cold. When I saw that s**t I bugged out like, “What the f**k is this?” It was just so incredible to me and I was just so inspired I just like, I don’t know…

It’s been like five or six years, but now when I meet people I always shake their hand and look down and bow before them-not all the way, but just a little bit, because to me that just lets a person know that it’s a pleasure to meet them too. They bow, but I just nod and I shake your hand at the same time, it’s just out of respect.

AllHipHop.com: I’ve never been to Tokyo, but as a Long Beach native, I’m obligated to ask what’s going on with Terry Kennedy from the Team Ice Cream?

Pharrell: That’s my n***a, he’s good. His s**t is looking really great. We’re working on a skate show for Team Ice Cream and we’ve got the DVD coming, we’ve got a new shoe that we’re about to debut that’ll be a second component to the skate line. He’s got a bright ass future. I’m just trying to keep him out of trouble, you heard he got shot up?

AllHipHop.com: Yeah, I was visiting out there when that popped off. Unfortunately that’s how it goes on the Eastside.

Pharrell: He got shot up being in the wrong place at the wrong time and s**t. But, it’s cool because we’ve got it documented and we’ve just got to show the kids that you could be trying to do the right thing and get caught up in the wrong bulls**t. It’s important to keep focus and keep God first and keep your eyes on the prize so you don’t f**k around and lose it being in the wrong place at the wrong time. I told him, “Yo, you’ve got a lot of kids looking up to you.” That n***a’s got gangbangers skating now and s**t. Who would’ve though n****s would, not necessarily put their rags up, but kind of put ‘em in their pockets to skate?

AllHipHop.com: Taking it back to the music, when you deal with so many different genres from Rock, Pop, Hip-Hop, or even something like Coltrane what’s the one thing that's remained constant throughout it all?

Pharrell: You know what…I just love all kinds of music. Speaking of Coltrane, “Giant Steps” is a very generic track in comparison to his whole entire catalogue. But “Giant Steps” in itself was brilliant because the steps he decided to take were incredible. That song is based off of an exercise [The Chromatic Scale] by this brilliant Russian scientist and composer by the name of [Nicolas] Slonimsky-it’s incredible those exercises, and I only know because Quincy Jones told me. I love it, I can recognize it but I can’t read the keys, I can only read percussion. I was classically trained as a percussion player, that’s how I got into music to begin with-when I was in seventh grade. He [Quincy Jones] challenged me like, “Yo, you should really be able to read it, because if you can read it then when you’re on a plane you won’t have to do what you do.” Right now I have to remember it or hum it into my phone until I get to a piano, and then when I’m at the piano I play it out. Once I can play it out I can remember it until I can get in the studio. He’s telling me that I can write it on napkins, you know just write down like F-sharp, [laughing] I don’t even know if there is an F-sharp.

AllHipHop.com: So this is like transcribing music?

Pharrell: Yeah. You can just go into different keys-it’s amazing. I know this is like getting off of Coltrane but that dude was incredible. I love classically trained piano players, the ones that I know of--I don’t know them all, but the ones I know of are great. That s**t is just inspiring to me.

AllHipHop.com: When you put it into that context it sounds like musically we’re only getting the tip of the iceberg, is there some other stuff you want to tap into?

Pharrell: I get different producers to put together iPods for me. I got Q-Tip to put together an iPod for me and [BBC Radio 1’s] Gilles Peterson is currently putting one together for me.

AllHipHop.com: What kind of experience is it to go from growing up listening to A Tribe Called Quest, and then having Q-Tip do an iPod or collaborating on a song?

Pharrell: It’s f**kin’ incredible dude, I can’t even tell you. I’m the biggest…n****s don’t know, I don’t know how the world perceives me, and I think that’s my gift. I don’t know how they perceive me so I just kind of do what I do-I’m not really limited by what people think I should be doing and sometimes it hurts me, but a lot of times it helps me. I’m really, really, really a fan. Seriously, I’m like a f**kin’ fanatic! I’m pretty sure you know what the definition of that is, like I’m really a f**kin’ fanatic. I’ll be around these n****s like, “Oh s**t that’s f**kin’ Q-Tip, yo! That’s f**kin’ Jay-Z, Elton John.” I’m that guy, I may not say it as much and they may not believe me when I say it. But, I’m from Virginia, I never thought in a million years that I would meet any of them n***as, ever.

AllHipHop.com: That really came across when Michael Jackson was giving you the Q&A treatment for Interview magazine…

Pharrell: That was crazy, right? This n***a Michael is interviewing me! Michael motherf**kin’ Jackson, dude. This is the n***a that had the world captivated when that n***a stopped the music after his brothers walked off stage and then [beat boxes and hums the melody to “Billie Jean”]. What? N***a I almost burned a whole in my socks tryin’ to moonwalk. That n***a was the king man, and he’s interviewing me, s**t!

And I told Prince I wanted to work with him and that n***a was like, “Umm, okay we’ll just have to have a few conversations first.” I’m like, “Yo, whatever dude you’re the king, you don’t need me. You’d actually be doing me a favor is what you don’t understand,” and he just laughed. I’m thinking, “N***a, I’m not asking you to work with me ‘cause you need me. I’m telling you I want to work with you ‘cause I need to work with you. I need to be able to say I did something with Prince!” Yes this is for me: me, me, me, me, me, me. It’s selfish, but what do you say to a guy like that? How do you pose that to a guy like that, what is the need for him to want to work with you? This n***a made all kinds of records and was naming them all kinds of wild, crazy, bananas names and them s**t’s was working.

AllHipHop.com: I guess it all boils down to a respect thing?

Pharrell: You know? Them n***as is kings, they don’t need me.

AllHipHop.com: Like it or not, people are looking up to you the same way now. I don’t want to lump you all together but you, Kanye, Lupe Fiasco, seem to be ushering in a style where it’s okay to “be yourself.”

Pharrell: Yeah, but do people really see me that way though? I’m not sure. I don’t know if people know that I’m really a backpacker. Do you think they really get that?

AllHipHop.com: I guess it depends on who you ask. It would seem like anyone who analyzes the lyrics would pick up on that-especially an N.E.R.D. album. Aside from the fact that you occasionally mention it, if they’re tuned in to that same frequency, so to speak, don’t you think the audience picks up on it?

Pharrell: Hmmm, you’re right about that.